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	<title>Comments on: Between a Rock and a Hard Place</title>
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	<link>http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/</link>
	<description>Another day at the office with Angela St. Lawrence, PhoneFemFatale</description>
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		<title>By: AvonBard</title>
		<link>http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comment-12940</link>
		<dc:creator>AvonBard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 21:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Matt -  I go back to the Latin phrase Ubi  amor  ...   &quot;Where there is love, there is faith.&quot; Love is a crucial part of faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt &#8211;  I go back to the Latin phrase Ubi  amor  &#8230;   &#8220;Where there is love, there is faith.&#8221; Love is a crucial part of faith.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comment-12895</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:23:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comment-12895</guid>
		<description>I see your point, but if they feel their religion is about a happening, then it&#039;s about a happening. We don&#039;t get to decide how they relate to God -- or how they create their faith within themselves. 

Regardless of what their Bible says -- if they beleive their relgion calls on them to do not drink, not smoke, marry 12 women, blow up clinics, then it does. If they are someone who only feels pious and correct when they are preaching, then that&#039;s what their faith gives them. It may be a bad reglion -- it may be an evil one -- but I don&#039;t like saying they don&#039;t understand, because they do. Their follow their faith -- it may just be different than we think it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see your point, but if they feel their religion is about a happening, then it&#8217;s about a happening. We don&#8217;t get to decide how they relate to God &#8212; or how they create their faith within themselves. </p>
<p>Regardless of what their Bible says &#8212; if they beleive their relgion calls on them to do not drink, not smoke, marry 12 women, blow up clinics, then it does. If they are someone who only feels pious and correct when they are preaching, then that&#8217;s what their faith gives them. It may be a bad reglion &#8212; it may be an evil one &#8212; but I don&#8217;t like saying they don&#8217;t understand, because they do. Their follow their faith &#8212; it may just be different than we think it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Angela</title>
		<link>http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comment-12894</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comment-12894</guid>
		<description>Actually, Matt, I kinda-sorta agree with you.  You say:

&quot;I think one of the big philosophical mistakes we make is assuming that religion Ã¢â‚¬â€ in and of itself Ã¢â‚¬â€ gives us  revelation.  I think it is our internalizing of the information and ideas Ã¢â‚¬â€ and them, if you wish Ã¢â‚¬â€ combined with the divine connection you feel that gives people a strong feeling of faith.&quot;

Which is totally right on.  But, many people who become &quot;Born Again&quot; don&#039;t internalize it.  They blindly follow their particular religion&#039;s rules (ie. baptism, no card playing, snakes, no dancing, special underwear, etc.), believing anyone who is outside the &quot;inner crowd&quot; is doomed.

They stay stagnate, not changing or growing.  Which is why I usually say to someone who claims they&#039;ve been &quot;Born Again,&quot; that isn&#039;t this &quot;God thing&quot; supposed to be a relationship, rather than a happening?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Matt, I kinda-sorta agree with you.  You say:</p>
<p>&#8220;I think one of the big philosophical mistakes we make is assuming that religion Ã¢â‚¬â€ in and of itself Ã¢â‚¬â€ gives us  revelation.  I think it is our internalizing of the information and ideas Ã¢â‚¬â€ and them, if you wish Ã¢â‚¬â€ combined with the divine connection you feel that gives people a strong feeling of faith.&#8221;</p>
<p>Which is totally right on.  But, many people who become &#8220;Born Again&#8221; don&#8217;t internalize it.  They blindly follow their particular religion&#8217;s rules (ie. baptism, no card playing, snakes, no dancing, special underwear, etc.), believing anyone who is outside the &#8220;inner crowd&#8221; is doomed.</p>
<p>They stay stagnate, not changing or growing.  Which is why I usually say to someone who claims they&#8217;ve been &#8220;Born Again,&#8221; that isn&#8217;t this &#8220;God thing&#8221; supposed to be a relationship, rather than a happening?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comment-12893</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 17:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comment-12893</guid>
		<description>As usual, a very nice piece.

This is the problem, however. Faith is about believing.

So what you believe, that is your faith. it doesn&#039;t matter whether it follows the bible or not -- if you think your faith requires a belief or an action, then it is true to you .

We all incorporate our faith in different ways -- my agnosticism is how I make it through a day sometimes, just as a believer holds strong to the idea of intervention. I guess what I&#039;m saying is religion doesn&#039;t teach anyone anything -- religion is a channeling mechanism for you you already believe. So of course there will people who hate, because they believe in hate, just as there are those who believe the Red Sea was parted.

I think one of the big philosophical mistakes we make is assuming that religion -- in and of itself -- gives usÃ‚Â  revelation.Ã‚Â  I think it is our internalizing of the information and ideas -- and them, if you wish -- combined with the divine connection you feel that gives people a strong feeling of faith. Maybe the words or feelings resonate. But I generally believe that your religion and your faith reflects who you are, not the other way around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As usual, a very nice piece.</p>
<p>This is the problem, however. Faith is about believing.</p>
<p>So what you believe, that is your faith. it doesn&#8217;t matter whether it follows the bible or not &#8212; if you think your faith requires a belief or an action, then it is true to you .</p>
<p>We all incorporate our faith in different ways &#8212; my agnosticism is how I make it through a day sometimes, just as a believer holds strong to the idea of intervention. I guess what I&#8217;m saying is religion doesn&#8217;t teach anyone anything &#8212; religion is a channeling mechanism for you you already believe. So of course there will people who hate, because they believe in hate, just as there are those who believe the Red Sea was parted.</p>
<p>I think one of the big philosophical mistakes we make is assuming that religion &#8212; in and of itself &#8212; gives usÃ‚Â  revelation.Ã‚Â  I think it is our internalizing of the information and ideas &#8212; and them, if you wish &#8212; combined with the divine connection you feel that gives people a strong feeling of faith. Maybe the words or feelings resonate. But I generally believe that your religion and your faith reflects who you are, not the other way around.</p>
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		<title>By: puzzler565</title>
		<link>http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comment-12892</link>
		<dc:creator>puzzler565</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 17:09:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comment-12892</guid>
		<description>Angela, you say that the rock is your &quot;sacrosanct heart.&quot; Upon this rock, I will build my church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Angela, you say that the rock is your &#8220;sacrosanct heart.&#8221; Upon this rock, I will build my church.</p>
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		<title>By: HDB</title>
		<link>http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comment-12867</link>
		<dc:creator>HDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 00:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comment-12867</guid>
		<description>Well as a card carrying member of Our Angela&#039;s Church of the Holy Moly,  I too say praise Femme Fatale Angela for sharing her wisdom and her right on views of what religion is vs. what it should be.

So many folks think only in their own little boxes that unlike our Lady Angela,  they never do see what matters and hate more than love.

Thanks for being you, dearest Angela</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well as a card carrying member of Our Angela&#8217;s Church of the Holy Moly,  I too say praise Femme Fatale Angela for sharing her wisdom and her right on views of what religion is vs. what it should be.</p>
<p>So many folks think only in their own little boxes that unlike our Lady Angela,  they never do see what matters and hate more than love.</p>
<p>Thanks for being you, dearest Angela</p>
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		<title>By: David C.</title>
		<link>http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comment-12866</link>
		<dc:creator>David C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 00:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comment-12866</guid>
		<description>What a treasure you are.  She&#039;s serious, folks.  I told her I was agnostic.  She replied, &quot;That means you just an athiest without balls.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a treasure you are.  She&#8217;s serious, folks.  I told her I was agnostic.  She replied, &#8220;That means you just an athiest without balls.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: booklover35</title>
		<link>http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comment-12865</link>
		<dc:creator>booklover35</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>A great column - which tells us a lot about just how special you are, Angie. What always loses me in these religious discussions is the point of view which says &quot;We are all all God&#039;s creatures. But unless you worship Him in the way I do, He&#039;s throwing you over the side!&quot; Just doesn&#039;t make sense to me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A great column &#8211; which tells us a lot about just how special you are, Angie. What always loses me in these religious discussions is the point of view which says &#8220;We are all all God&#8217;s creatures. But unless you worship Him in the way I do, He&#8217;s throwing you over the side!&#8221; Just doesn&#8217;t make sense to me!</p>
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		<title>By: hot java</title>
		<link>http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comment-12862</link>
		<dc:creator>hot java</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zenfetish.com/2007/10/18/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comment-12862</guid>
		<description>AHMEN, sister Angela...of course that makes me guilty of incest..at least, like Jimmy Carter, in my heart.  How much better the world would be with open minds and hearts.  Thank you, Angela for another civic prompt and meaningful commentary.  How is it you have so many captivating facets?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AHMEN, sister Angela&#8230;of course that makes me guilty of incest..at least, like Jimmy Carter, in my heart.  How much better the world would be with open minds and hearts.  Thank you, Angela for another civic prompt and meaningful commentary.  How is it you have so many captivating facets?</p>
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